Discuss:Ethics, Behavior, World-view:Revolution
From da Vinci Concept
Revolution
Truc_Ha - Mon Dec 8 12:25:24 2003
Revolution
What is revolution to you and how much/many do you want to cause?
Large. Small.
Revolve. Evolve. Convolve.
I want to change the world with my words. I speak; I write; I am silent, thinking.
I have caused revolution in the life of a young woman. I have written of the missing revolution in thought that needs to occur to abolish racism and shouted it in journalism to the institution that is my school. I have witnessed and thoughtlessly been a party to the culture of medicine--sterile and elitist, dehumanizing, cruel, and despairing--it needs a revolution.
Revolution to me is the changing of paradigms, the shifting of thought per Khun. Medicine has taught me that people seldom actually change their paradigms; they just add exceptions to them.
I am into radical reconstruction.
Revolution as I wish to practice it involves unease, unrest, and the bright relief that recognizes the articulation of reality. It will not be easy, nor obvious, which battles to pick, which media to speak in.
I choose the battle.
--Truc_Ha Mon Dec 8 12:25:24 2003
ladymurasaki - Mon Dec 8 12:55:27 2003
And you've already chosen your weapon as well, dear friend...or should I say _weapons_! Medicine, internet, independent thought shared freely among friends etc etc...
After all - what do we do that doesn't have an effect on those around us? Remember the butterfly in Tokyo!! Overdeterminist thought rules!
Seriously though - I definitely agree about how most people just tack on different "well - ok - here's an exception to the rule" but still hold fast to their preconceptions, prejudices and paradigms. It's a kind of lazy way of holding onto something that feels safe and comfortable even when you know it doesn't mesh with "reality". So you recreate a reality that fits with your ideas, instead of vice versa. Problem is - when so many people do this - does that redefine what is real/what is acceptable?
Ahhh - the ultimate confusion. So the question is - how do you communicate with someone who uses this kind of argument with you? It is a circuituous and diversionary argument...and yet one that sooo many people get into and waste precious brain space on. Bottom line is - how to provide your ideas in a way for others to listen and incorporate if they chose - without getting caught up in semantic philosophical tangents?
Anyway - enough tangential thought for tonite. Love the forum - this is a great idea! Can't wait to get into some collaborative thought explorations with folks...
--ladymurasaki Mon Dec 8 12:55:27 2003
joryea - Wed Dec 10 11:34:31 2003
hmm... revolution of thought.. on a large scale. Very hard to accomplish, but worth the effort of focus.
The question is, does thought effect on a grand scale? I would say yes, for our society and way of life was founded upon thought.
I would like to help change much of thought, shaping to curve in the direction desired: tuned, focused, pure. Concentrated thought.
That in its self creates another revolution. Where we, perhaps, knowingly let the stream of thought flow in new directions, continuing the forever stream of change and creation.
All I must do is be myself. hehe.. subconcious revolution of our oneness in thought.
crazy talk. hope you likey...
--joryea Wed Dec 10 11:34:31 2003
sunny - Sat Dec 13 20:06:40 2003
| Medicine has taught me that people seldom actually change their paradigms; they just add exceptions to them. |
| -- Truc_Ha |
This is unfortunate. Perhaps it is the case that they have never really assessed their primary principles and don't know their own values. It is also such that most of the systems that an individual might choose to use are not better, but worse, and only superficially different than the system (if any) that they currently use as a basis for their values.
A radical restructuring of values is, as you said, the revolution that is needed. I think that it is necessary for such a revolution to occur from a change within the foundation of their philosophy, from the fundamentals of their view of reality. If does not happen at the roots then it is necessarily going to be only an addition to the growing list of "exceptions to the rules." Only by choosing to re-define your fundamental values is anyone going to be able to achieve a radical restructuring of their way of life.
If the individual also wants a value system that is compatable with their own life I would argue that it is also necessary that they also choose a value system that is consistent with reality and not one with a basis in mysticism, the conceptually arbitrary, subjectivism, relativism, or even pragmatism.
--sunny Sat Dec 13 20:06:40 2003
charmed_quark - Mon Dec 15 13:44:26 2003
Revolution to me is a sudden change in power structure. It follows the intellectual paradigm shift. People, by nature, are followers. They will believe whatever the leadership tells them to believe. A small minority are able to be persuaded by reason that new ideas are superior to old ones, but until that minority siezes power, the masses will not accept the new ideas.
A 'radical restructuring of values' will not occur by writing books, putting up websites or chatting with your neighbors. The epitome of this approach was the peace movement in the 60's and 70's and now, here we are again, waging ridiculous wars for questionable causes.
The approach only that I can think of that makes sense in our current context is the one I outlined in the changeling thread.
--charmed_quark Mon Dec 15 13:44:26 2003
joryea - Tue Dec 16 16:55:13 2003
beautiful,.. just beautiful. you are all very brilliant. I feel we are the revolution, slowly but surely rising its tide to sweep away the masses in an ocean of new and dazzling ways to live out our life.
--joryea Tue Dec 16 16:55:13 2003
sunny - Fri Dec 19 19:11:02 2003
| People, by nature, are followers. They will believe whatever the leadership tells them to believe. A small minority are able to be persuaded by reason that new ideas are superior to old ones, but until that minority siezes power, the masses will not accept the new ideas. |
| -- charmed_quark |
No. I believe that you need to de-conflict the differences between statistical masses, 'the people', and individuals, a person. The people must necessarily follow the ideals and choices made by the intellectual few. Statistically large groups of people do not and cannot make choices. Only individuals make choices. The statistics of mass decision is only a poll of popular opinion and not a choice in any way. Individuals, however, do and must make decisions. The ability to choose is the fundamental that enables human conciousness. Individuals, by their nature, make choices. It is these choices that the intellectual few must affect through every valid means available. This 'means' IS the persuasion of the intelligent individuals within our society through valid arguments based on reason and rationality.
Your argument is invalid because society is not led by the masses. It is led by individuals with the power to see and to choose. It is these individuals and only these individuals that create revolution. It is you and I.
For precisely these reasons it is exactly that a 'radical restructuring of values' will necessarily occur through the writing of meaningful and purposeful books, the publishing of real ideas and valid human values on websites, and meaningfull communication with your neighbors. Note that I have added criterion to the intellectual's means of affecting change. It is true that any and all means of communication can be misused and are capable of holding no intellectual content. A good example of this fact is the trivialization of email. It is only by our effort that the mediums of communication are made meaningful.
You'r example of 60's activism is contentless. In order to make a valid point you must argue not from point of fact, form, or stereotype, but from the underlying arguments and premises that lead to that fact. Please add context and thus meaning and value when arguing from point of fact. It is of primary importance to enabling Poetic Publishing as a means of communication to hold value and affect change.
I should note that the purpose of Poetic Publishing is to act as a tool for creating and enforcing meaningful mediums of communication. This cannot be done by a single individual, but it is my initiation and development of this project that will enable it. It is the choice of the individuals that make use of this website as a means of communication that will enforce its cognizance and value to society.
[ Edited Fri Dec 19 2003, 10:23PM ]
--sunny Fri Dec 19 19:11:02 2003
TheLiberal Fri Sep 28 9:19:02 2007
Oh, the irony, that my user name is The Liberal, and yet I must take the opposite. I am wary of revolution, if only for the reason that its violent turbulence completely destroys the mind's capacity of good judgement. Revolution sends shockwaves running through society, the irreversible results of which we must take full responsibility for. Of course, I understand your eagerness, Truc_Ha. But I ask you to temper your eagerness just a bit. Revolution, for all its usefulness, is a dangerous and double-edged sword.
I do feel, however, that our current state of thought, the human mind is sorely lacking. Conservative thought must be changed, says the younger, more liberal generation. We must not forget, however, that someday we will be conservative, and our children will be pushing the limits of what we never thought possible.
Which brings me to my primary point: The file(tool), instead of the bomb, should be used to shape our future. In some ways this has happened all ready, as mankind has made two thousand years worth of progress, not by beheading the King and Queen(As france did, sending their revolution into the cruel chaos and fear that ruled for some years to come), or by forced restructuring of social roles(Karl Marx), but by the slow process of building on what came before.
Look at the british parliament, which did not come about by any physical revolution, but was the single most liberal establisment of its time. More often than not, radical restructuring of values leads to chaos, insanity, cruelty, Maoism.
That is what we need to change.
--TheLiberal See above date.
